The Dragon Waiting group sync-read

[tabacoychanel]

Hello everyone and welcome to our group sync-read of the first of John M. Ford's books to be rereleased by Tor, The Dragon Waiting (1983)! I know there are 5-6 of you who have already expressed keen interest in this virtual bookclub; if you are not one of them PLEASE feel free to join us if the book looks like your jam! It's said to be a dense book so I'm looking forward to having fellow travelers to tackle it with me. If you haven't already, do read this to get a general idea of what the book is like and this longer article which situates Ford's work in the context of what was happening in the genre at the time.

I'm going to start an Introductions thread below where we can all introduce ourselves and hash out the structure of the sync-read. I'll give it a few days (until October 4) for us all to post a short intro, and get on the same page re: the reading schedule. See you all down there!

P.S. there's one or two of you i may have corralled into getting a Dreamwidth account just so you could join this dicussion lol for you guys I recommend turning on email notifications for this post so that anytime anybody replies to this post, you'll get notified.

Comments

Chapter Ten

[tabacoychanel]

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Re: Chapter Ten

[hamsterwoman]

A sex scene is another thing I was not expecting this book to have (more fool me, at this point). I still don't know that it was really necessary for the book to have one, but...

It's interesting to finally get Gregory's POV, though. It's more self-loathing than I'd expected ("any frothing dog"), even based on his fairly unhappy dialogue about his condition.

God why is everybody in this book named Richard or Edward or Henry XD (I mean, I know why, it's because that's what everybody in England was named at the time, but it's really annoying as a reader in an already-confusing book.

I would not have known, if cahn hadn't pointed it out in the last set of chapters, that we are supposed to know that Buckingham is with Morton, and does not have the young king's best interests in mind. I probably would've been taken in, along with Dimi, by the bluster. Even knowing not to trust him, I had to smile at his "In a forest of Woodvilles [...] A very thicket of 'em", because I'm easily amused.

I do like that Richard is torn in this, between thinking of young Edward as his brother's son and thinking of him as a future king ("We are talking about my brother's son. [...] But we're not, are we. He's not just a boy any longer.") And I like the "I ran out of tears before brothers" line. And I mostly like Edward himself, occasionally regal through visible effort and sometimes a little boy (like the "I love strawberries" bit in the next chapter) and sometimes sort of in-between ("Is there no one who will come and go at the King's command?")

But even with that, I'm not sure I totally buy the certainty that Rivers is trying to kill young Edward rather than entertain that he might be telling the truth about the boy being terminally ill. Like, Richard certainly has good reason to be paranoid at this point (especially once he hears that Margaret may also be somehow involved; he definitely does not seem rational about her), and given the story of Rivers killing his childhood companion/possibly having inteded to kill him in the joust, it makes sense that Richard wouldn't trust him much... but if Rivers had wanted Edward harmed, it seems like he wouldn't go about it this way? And, Dimi just believes along with Richard because he can't imagine Cynthia not doing something to help, which just seems silly -- Dimi of all people should know that sometimes medicine can't do anything. (OK, I went and peeked at Draco Concordans, and it seems like this is SUPPOSED to be abrupt and out of character, because Richard and Dimi are being influenced by sorcery? OK then, that makes more sense. I suppose it might also explain why Rivers doesn't fight back as much as Dimi would expect him to / seems to be in pain out of proportion to how he is being restrained?)

Also, yay more Dimi POV. I especially enjoyed him assessing the room where Richard and Rivers are meeting ("He had paced out the room earlier today: he could kill the first man through any door, and hold the rest with the polearm."), and the noblemen themselves, and whether or not Anthony's tapping could be a secret signal (regular or magical).

Quote:

Rivers: "Elizabeth never told your brother [about young Edward being terminally ill]. And the Prince doesn't know -- we didn't have any courage to tell him before his father died, and we're not notably braver now."

Re: Chapter Ten & Eleven

[cafemassolit]

God why is everybody in this book named Richard or Edward or Henry XD (I mean, I know why, it's because that's what everybody in England was named at the time, but it's really annoying as a reader in an already-confusing book.
motion seconded XD

Gregory is a self-loathing intelligentsia in exile, he apparently gotta. Not enough German pragmatism to help him dodge that bullet! Tho that was one very disinterested sex scene. "I'll tolerate your bloodplay for sex" and vice versa.

I mentioned that already privately to you and A, but my main observation about the book (and how loosely it holds my attention once we've moved past introductory chapters) so far is that it expects me to go in caring about Richard III. So it only builds up time and effort to create characters who will bring the narrative to him, and not so much with him, and I'm feeling somewhat falsely advertised to in terms of where my fucks allocation (:D) is meant to be.

(It is with Dimi, before you make the joke yourself).

Other important observation I'm making right now is that I absolutely did not understand there is supposed to be sorcery at work that explains the series of rather abrupt and impulsive/unthought-thru decisions that took place across these two chapters. It must have been too subtle for me to pick up without annotated footnotes on the first read XD So much more subtle than Dimi's ongoing show of daddy kinks, chaotic vectorless bisexual energy, and terrible judgement of character. (On that note, not only was his "oh no there was only one dungeon and my neighbour is my apex predator" hilariously reminiscent of, прости господи, jace/simon (XDD i knooow, don't judge me, but that UST was also hilarious) and very much there, but the nerdy code-breaking with depressed Gregory was also cute. Wholesome things to do on a date with Dimi /shakes head. I'm gonna go on a leg here and say he's only awkward at het.

On a funny note, I've never been quite so inexplicably terrified by a scene of berry eating, and that's counting the hunger games XD At least there I knew they were poison, and here I was terrified ahead of getting the explanation as to why.

Re: Chapter Ten & Eleven

[hamsterwoman]

Gregory is a self-loathing intelligentsia in exile, he apparently gotta.

When you put it that way, I guess that's fair XD

Other important observation I'm making right now is that I absolutely did not understand there is supposed to be sorcery at work that explains the series of rather abrupt and impulsive/unthought-thru decisions that took place across these two chapters

I'm relieved to hear that! Because, yeah, until I read the Draco Concordans notes for chapter 10, it did not occur to me that my "wait, what?" reaction to the too-abrupt stuff under sorcery was signaling OOC behavior due to sorcery, as opposed to my general "wait, what?" when the characters were reacting (normally) to something I didn't understand, or the narrative had skipped forward six months without filling in the blanks, etc. I'm glad to know it's sorcery, though, because that was a lot of jumping to conclusions.

not only was his "oh no there was only one dungeon and my neighbour is my apex predator" hilariously reminiscent of, прости господи, jace/simon (XDD i knooow, don't judge me, but that UST was also hilarious

XD

First, I have to tell you that "oh no there was only one dungeon" got a literal LOL from me first thing in the morning, and second, Jace/Simon would've never occurred to me as a point of comparison, but you are not wrong about their UST being also hilarious, so I guess that's a thing that will be in my brain now. Thanks XD

On a funny note, I've never been quite so inexplicably terrified by a scene of berry eating, and that's counting the hunger games XD At least there I knew they were poison, and here I was terrified ahead of getting the explanation as to why.

Those were some incredibly ominous strawberries, I agree XD

Re: Chapter Ten & Eleven

[cafemassolit]

What can I say except 🎶🌊 :D

Re: Chapter Ten & Eleven

[hamsterwoman]

XD :*

Re: Chapter Ten

[cahn]

...I'm just going to post and append my last read synopsis:

Edward IV has died, so now Prince Edward is Edward V.

Anthony Woodville/Earl Rivers is with Edward V in Wales, in possession of the new King, and has been tasked with bringing him to his mother in London. Richard and Anthony make arrangements to meet together (with, as it turns out, Buckingham). Rivers comes in good faith, but Richard -- and Dimi -- are suspicious. Buckingham basically needles Rivers until he snaps; this is taken as a show of bad faith and Anthony is trussed up and taken away. (DC claims there may be wizardry at work in this scene. [On my previous read I was not sure I believed this, but on this read I think DC is right. So you guys are way ahead of my previous N rereads of this :PP]) Richard is now Protector of the King.

(In our history, Anthony is now executed; in TDW he lives.)

Dimitrios felt himself smiling. Edward was doing his best to be kingly, as his father would want, and succeeding very well. But then, Dimi thought, Edward's father had died suddenly and far away. And his father's brother was a brave, intelligent lord. And Edward was really a king.

I... didn't realize until now that Dimi is comparing Edward to himself! [Dimi and his daddy issues, awwww]

[ETA: "Dimi saw Richard's lips for a word, did not need to hear it." Presumably this is whatever Edward is sick with?? What?? I thought maybe it was leukemia or something, maybe it's some other kind of cancer? But then why would Cynthia say it was "rare"?]

Re: Chapter Ten

[hamsterwoman]

I... didn't realize until now that Dimi is comparing Edward to himself!

Ooh, I'd missed that! Dimi and his daddy issues indeed XD

"Dimi saw Richard's lips for a word, did not need to hear it." Presumably this is whatever Edward is sick with?? What??

This part also confused me... Sounds like DC is no help in that regard?

Re: Chapter Ten

[sineala]

I am once again late but I am still here and that's what's really important! Probably! I am sorry about the extreme lateness; RL has been lousy. This will be brief.

Anyway, I don't know that I have much to say here. I like Gregory's POV -- is this the first time we've gotten it? I forget.

I do like Edward here.

Man, this book is a lot of politicking that I have zero context for and I still love it.