Decade in Books
Jan. 1st, 2020 05:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tabacoychanelhamsterwoman and i recently reconnected! since we are both taxonomically-oriented people, and since our friendship was formed just about a decade ago, we thought we’d catch up by taking stock of what books were important to us over the last ten years. I conveniently started keeping an exhaustive reading log right about the turn of the decade so that came in super useful!
Favorite books read in the last decade: A Countess Below Stairs by Eva Ibbotson, The Jane Austen Book Club by Karen Joy Fowler, Paladin of Souls and Barrayar and A Civil Campaign by Lois McMaster Bujold, Uprooted and Victory of Eagles by Naomi Novik, My Real Children by Jo Walton, A Terrible Country by Keith Gessen, Ninefox Gambit by Yoon Ha Lee, Under the Pendulum Sun by Jeannette Ng, and let us not forget that A Dance With Dragons came out in two thousand and fucking eleven, lord above can you believe it i feel like it’s been centuries
Best books read in the last decade: The Curse of Chalion by Lois McMaster Bujold, Spinning Silver by Naomi Novik, The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison, Fever by Mary Beth Keane, Gaudy Night by Dorothy Sayers (i am still ugly crying about it), My Cousin Rachel by Daphne Du Maurier (the unreliable narrator to end all unreliable narrators—this book chilled me to the BONE and is without flaws), Holes by Louis Sachar, The Dispossessed by Ursula Le Guin, The Game of Kings by Dorothy Dunnett
Books that surprised me in a good way: The Queen of Attolia by Meagan Whalen Turner (i mean was anybody expecting this series to take this turn after the mostly lighthearted heist novel that was The Thief??), The Just City by Jo Walton (really showcases Walton at her best i love that she can be extremely deep and riotously funny at the same time: not alternately one and then the other she’s the perfect union of both)
Favorite series discovered: Anna Dean’s Dido Kent Mysteries, C.J. Cherryh’s (tragically unfinished!!!) Morgaine cycle, Justin Cronin’s The Passage trilogy, Violette Malan’s Dylan & Parno novels (these are not objectively good but they tickled my id), Julian May’s Saga of the Pliocene Exile (ngl i read PURELY for the plot and nothing else—the premise is absolutely bonkers and grows increasingly more bananas), i suppose i ought to list Temeraire & Vorkosigan here despite already listing them in favorite authors and binge reads and favorite books of the decade lol
Series that got away from me some time in the last decade: Ruth Downie’s Medicus Mysteries (the quality has taken a steep nosedive so i let these go on purpose), S.M. Stirling’s Novels of the Change (ditto), Scott Lynch’s Gentlemen Bastards series, Jacqueline Carey is STILL writing more Kushielverse stories??? is she tryna pull a Temeraire, set a book on every continent? i read the Imriel trilogy and enjoyed it but bounced right off the Moirin trilogy
Least favorite books: i can’t answer this because i just bleach the ones i dislike from my brain. i remember, for instance, that i couldn’t stand Who Fears Death by Nnedi Okorafor but i could not for the life of me tell you why
Most disappointing books: White is for Witching by Helen Oyeyemi (this is probably a case of expectation vs. reality? she’s insanely talented but i was just not onboard for what she was doing), To Say Nothing of the Dog by Connie Willis (controversial opinion but i prefer Blackout/All Clear to this one?? Doomsday Book is obviously perfect & no more need be said on that head), Clariel by Garth Nix
Favorite authors discovered in the decade: Lois McMaster Bujold, Naomi Novik, Yoon-Ha Lee (i actually read his short story collection Conservation of Shadows before Ninefox Gambit came out, was absolutely blown away and beyond hyped to hear there was a novel forthcoming), Claire North, Cecilia Grant, Frances Hardinge
Authors I binge read in the last decade: Lois McMaster Bujold, Naomi Novik, Ann Leckie, Courtney Milan, Seanan McGuire, Leigh Bardugo, Charlie Stross, Agatha Christie, Kristin Cashore
Not for me authors: Kameron Hurley, Sarah J. Maas, Jacqueline Winspear, Laurie R. King
Turnaround authors: Daryl Gregory (the man has more ideas coming out of his ears in five minutes than i’ve ever had in three decades of being alive, i finally figured out that if i read him for the originality of his ideas then i’m golden)
Favorite/least favorite classics I read: North & South by Elizabeth Gaskell, Miss Mackenzie and Doctor Thorne by Anthony Trollope, Howards End by E.M. Forster, The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck, Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, Pygmalion by George Bernard Shaw, Mrs. Dalloway by Virginia Woolf— don’t recall reading any classics that i disliked except maybe Robinson Crusoe which was a snoozefest?
Books I read outside of comfort zone: Annihilation by Jeff Vandermeer, Hold the Dark by William Giraldi, We Have Always Lived in the Castle by Shirley Jackson, White Van by John Darnielle — unqualified endorsement for all of these, was amply rewarded for dipping my toe into psychological horror!!!
Funniest: Cotillion by Georgette Heyer, Gone Girl by Gillian Flynn (i know i know but no word of a lie i was cracking up every other page)
Saddest: The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemison, Only Ever Yours by Louise O’Neill (it’s a very one-note book but the one thing it does it does astoundingly well) , Forbidden by Tabitha Suzuma (tragic incestuous teenage romance is tragic, i am predictable)
Hardest: King Hereafter by Dorothy Dunnett (took me a year to read, cried buckets, 100% worth it); Perdido Street Station by China Miéville for a distant second
Beautifully written: The Magicians by Lev Grossman, To Siberia by Per Petterson
Books I recommended the most: Sunshine by Robin McKinley
Books I can't believe it took me until this decade to read: The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula Le Guin, “Chrestomanci” series by Diana Wynne Jones, The Darkangel by Meredith Ann Pierce
Favorite/most memorable characters: Ivan Vorpatril, John Granby, Richard Crawford, Jesper Fahey
Genre-reading evolution: i read waaaay more hard sf! i read considerably more nonfiction too, even though i’ll always be a fiction-primary person
Reading habits evolution: for the most part, fiction goes on the e-reader and nonfiction (anything with footnotes worth perusing) i obtain hard copies of, either from the library or (for preference) i buy them & mark them up
Books that I can't believe I'm still waiting for: THE WINDS OF MOTHERFUCKING WINTER GRRM I CRY YOU MERCY
Books that did not stand up to a reread: How I Live Now by Meg Rosoff (the chemistry and the sneaking around were still 10/10 but how the fuck do you call that a denouement)
Books that i reread a lot: Persuasion by Jane Austen—at least 4x cover-to-cover which is a lot for me, i know people who reread hp or rewatch atla every year and i’m like bitch how do you find the time (if i had the time i actually would rewatch atla every year; i’d pass on the hp rereads bc there is SUCH a boundless universe of fic out there and i want to devour it all). Hmm what else did I reread a lot? Stardust by Neil Gaiman, Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay, The Sunne in Splendour by Sharon Kay Penman, all umpteen books in Robin Hobb’s Realms of the Elderlings, at this point the multiple Bujold and Novik rereads should surprise exactly no one
I’m ad libbing a category here, Nonfiction Books That Were Important to Me:
- James C. Scott, Against the Grain: A Deep History of the Earliest States (2018)
- Carl Wilson, Let's Talk About Love: A journey to the end of taste (2007)
- Tim Wu, The Master Switch: The Rise and Fall of Information Empires (2010)
- Malcolm Harris, Kids These Days: Millenials and the Making of Human Capital (2017)
- Renee Engeln, Beauty Sick: How the cultural obsession with appearance hurts girls and women (2017)
- Mark Blyth, Austerity: The history of a dangerous idea (2013)
- Linda Tirado, Hand to Mouth: Living in Bootstrap America (2014)
- Virginia Woolf, Three Guineas (1938)
- Silvia Federici, Caliban and the Witch: Women, the body, and primitive accumulation (2004)
- Christopher Leonard, The Meat Racket: The Secret Takeover of America’s Food Business (2014)
- David Dayen, Chain of Title: How Three Ordinary Americans Uncovered Wall Street’s Great Foreclosure Fraud (2016)
- Corey Robin, The Reactionary Mind: Conservatism from Edmund Burke to Sarah Palin (2011)
- Naomi Klein, The Shock Doctrine: The rise of disaster capitalism (2007)
- Marc Morris, A Great and Terrible King: Edward I and the Forging of Britain (2009)
- Arlie Hochschild, The Second Shift: Working parents and the revolution at home (1989)
- Greg Grandin, The Empire of Necessity: Slavery, Freedom and Deception in the New World (2014)
- Janice Radway, Reading the Romance: Women, Patriarchy, and Popular Literature (1984)
ETA: Movies & TV
- i fell headlong into the Battlestar Galactica reboot just about a decade after it aired in 2004, and was like everyone else sorely disappoint by latter seasons, and gobbled up ALL the fic. but i just remember that heady feeling of being hypnotized by my screen and not wanting to eat or sleep
- Orphan Black which i haven't seen the final season of yet
- Avatar: The Last Airbender which i marathoned straight through once on my own, once with my sister, once with my husband (the latter two times i didn't catch every single episode but enough to get caught up in the arcs, and my appreciation for EVERY combination of friendships within the gaang just grew and grew and i just miss Uncle Iroh so much)
- Brooklyn Nine-Nine which i've seen twice, the second time when i was getting hubby into it
- Black Sails all-time ultimate fave TV show hands down
- The Last Kingdom is one i'll definitely rewatch--i only just saw it this year
- The Middle (2009) criminally underrated dramedy about a middle-class white nuclear family in Indiana. the writing is phenomenal. i had fallen behind on this series because it's not available anywhere convenient, and we're a cable-cutting household, and then this year on our thirteen-hour-plane-ride to China there was the latest season of The Middle and it felt like a sign. it's really not something i woudla ever expected to be into, it's aggressively NOT genre, it's the most mundane thing ever, i reiterate the writing is so good
- Great British Bake-Off: I've watched every single season. If my sister and I can be said to have a shared fandom it is this one, when the new eps were dropping on Netflix this year we actually had a standing videochat appointment on the weekends so we could watch the latest ep together
- The Borgias and Borgia: Faith & Fear: The latter is more engaging but the former one has my preferred ship dynamic
- a grab bag of stuff that was decidedly second-tier for me: BBC Sherlock, The Good Wife, The Americans, Downton Abbey, Arrow, Jane the Virgin, Killing Eve
- oh man did i even see any movies this decade? well Mad Max: Fury Road i've seen 3 times. also Doom and The Social Network
- movies i've seen twice this decade: Pacific Rim, Stardust, The Jane Austen Book Club. i really don't watch that many movies so twice is a lot for me!
no subject
Date: 2020-01-03 03:57 am (UTC)Paladin of Souls and Barrayar and A Civil Campaign by Lois McMaster Bujold, Uprooted and Victory of Eagles by Naomi Novik
You have good taste in series books, my friend :D A Civil Campaign is my favorite of the Vorkosigans and I firmly believe VoE is the pinnacle of Temeraire.
I'm curious that you listed Curse of Chalion as best and Paladin as favorite, because I think those are flipped for me -- I feel like Paladin is the more impressive book, but I just want to give Cazaril a hug, so it grips me more emotionally. Though, OK, I do ALSO appreciate Paladin emotionally, on account of Arhyz dy Lutez, who could get it even being dead. XP
Also, I think Raven Stratagem might just edge out Ninefox Gambit for me because it turns out that I love Mikodez's ferret brain. Also, should I inflict the NERDIEST POEM I'VE EVER WRITTEN on you? I had to look up a trig function for it.
I love Louis Sachar! I discovered him in middle school via the Wayside School books, and then kept buying my brother his books and reading them myself. Holes is very good! But I have a har time picking a favorite of his.
My Cousin Rachel by Daphne Du Maurier (the unreliable narrator to end all unreliable narrators—this book chilled me to the BONE and is without flaws)
I am intrigued! I enjoyed Rebecca more than I expected, so I think I'm up for more du Maurier, espcially with unreliable narrators!
The Queen of Attolia by Meagan Whalen Turner (i mean was anybody expecting this series to take this turn after the mostly lighthearted heist novel that was The Thief??)
I had not! And I liked QoA more than The Thief (which I thought was fine but unexceptional), but there's still something about this series that holds me at a remove, so I haven't continued on. Even though aspects of it remind me of the Vorkosigan Saga (Gen is a similar Guile Hero to Miles, for starters), so I think I see why so many of my Vorkosigan fan friends are also hardcore Attolia fans.
The Just City by Jo Walton (really showcases Walton at her best i love that she can be extremely deep and riotously funny at the same time
I read this! :D (and liked it, although it was definitely one of those things we talked about where her fiction writing just doesn't seem to grab me emotionally while I intellectually admire the edifice she's constructed, as I do here.)
i read the Imriel trilogy and enjoyed it but bounced right off the Moirin trilogy
I actually prefer the Imriel books to Phedre's (mostly for reasons of having, uh, less Phedre XD, but also I like Imri himself a lot, and his dynamic with Maslin, Sidonie, Lucius and Mavros. Also, between them Lucius and his ancestor possession thing and Cheris/Jedao showed me that I have a "possessed by the spirit of an undead general" kink, apparently. It's a weirdly specific niche!) Ahem, but yeah, the Moirin books were not nearly as interesting to me. I finished them out, but eh.
I'm also amused that we have both managed to bounce off Nnedi Okorafor XD Also Kameron Hurley, whom I didn't even mention in my list because I never even finished a single book of hers, despite the bug-based worldbuiling being entirely up my alley. Also, I think I did manage to read one book of Laurie R. King's but was too bored to continue.
To Say Nothing of the Dog by Connie Willis (controversial opinion but i prefer Blackout/All Clear to this one??
Aww! I actually haven't read Balckout/All Clear, so I can't compare (no argument about Doomsday Book, there's a perfect book I never ever want to read again), but I do find TSNotD very enjoyable and charming. But also I like the Jerome K. Jerome book it's riffing on -- maybe that makes a difference?
Tell me what Charles Stross stuff worked for you? I've now tried two series of his and both left me with a vague distaste...
And, hee, I just discovered Daryl Gregory this year via Hugos homework and loved his nominated novelette and want to read more. Any specific recs?
tbc...
no subject
Date: 2020-01-03 05:07 am (UTC)I'm also amused we independently both read North & South (I liked it a lot, and was impressed by how oddly progressive (most of) it seemed.
I also read Cotillion at some point, selected as my best shot at Heyer, but while I reasonably enjoyed it, it didn't turn me into a fan.
Hardest: King Hereafter by Dorothy Dunnett
I'm kind of terrified that there's a harder Dunnett book than Game of Kings... XD
I'm so happy that you agree with me on the beauty of Lev Grossman's prose.
Books I can't believe it took me until this decade to read: The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula Le Guin, “Chrestomanci” series by Diana Wynne Jones,
I should probably reread Left Hand of Darkness at some point, an read more classic LeGuin (she is another author, like Jo Walton, where I think I prefer her writing ABOUT genre to her work as an author, even though I love Earthsea). And Chrestomanci, aww! Christopher is a lot of fun!
Favorite/most memorable characters: Ivan Vorpatril, John Granby, Richard Crawford, Jesper Fahey
I like your taste in fictional men! Richard was my favorite in the Lymond book, and Jesper in Six of Crows (what is the fic in this fandom; I took one peek and backed away quietly XD). Ivan is also a favorite, although a "top 10" kind of favorite, because there are a lot of Vorkosigan characters to love, OK. And I do like Granby too, but he is not a top tier character for me (that's Perscitia followed by Jane, Emily, Napoleon, and Laurence on the next level).
fiction goes on the e-reader and nonfiction (anything with footnotes worth perusing)
I'm torn on nonfiction! Because footnotes ARE really annoying in e-copy, but I like being able to highlight and search!
Avatar: The Last Airbender which i marathoned straight through once on my own, once with my sister, once with my husband
Sounds like a good use of time, tbh! I really loved the show, and was happy to have proof, finally, that my enjoyment of The Dragon types is non-gender-specific, because I LOOOOVED Azula. (Also Toph, Sokka, and Uncle Iroh, of course, but there's less meta to be gleaned from that, I feel.)
I also watched some scattered episodes of B99 (mostly on planes) and Sherlock, and O is a huge Arrow fan. His prized possession is a picture of himself with Steven Amell, from one of these media cons he ragged me to. It's his screensaver and desktop on the computer and everything XD I joked that I was going to get him a mug with it, and then I actually did -- the look on his face was the best thing ever XD
part 1
Date: 2020-01-04 04:08 am (UTC)you are 100% correct on VoE and if Civil Campaign isn’t my favorite Vorkosigan it’s because i feel like it doesn’t showcase the full range of stuff that Bujold shines at, which is why Barrayar is tied for favorite! Memory also does a lot of those things but so far i’ve been too chickenshit to reread it lol it hurt me so much the first time
I think those are flipped for me -- I feel like Paladin is the more impressive book
ohhh interesting! ok the reason i ranked Chalion as the more impressive book is i think it’s better constructed? like the bones of it?? does that make sense. i too want to give Caz a hug but i just identified viscerally with Ista in Paladin, which is why i categorized it as “favorite.” i guess i think Paladin is a more uneven book, even though the punches land harder and the ideas are bigger. but the two are really neck in neck, the gap between them is not imo so large that i could not be argued into flip-flopping the categories, i just woulda felt like a sham if i ranked both of them as Favorite and Best
because it turns out that I love Mikodez's ferret brain. Also, should I inflict the NERDIEST POEM I'VE EVER WRITTEN
ahahaha makes total sense and YES PLEASE
I enjoyed Rebecca more than I expected, so I think I'm up for more du Maurier, espcially with unreliable narrators!
i honestly think you would really enjoy My Cousin Rachel. you have to recall going into it that Du Maurier has made a career out of typecasting this one kind of Hero—brooding Byronic control freak—and deconstructing him through the eyes of the female lead (Rebecca, The King’s General, The Frenchman’s Creek all do this) and then she comes out with My Cousin Rachel which subverts her ENTIRE PREVIOUS BODY OF WORK and it’s fucking brilliant. from about the quarter-way mark on i could not breathe. ik you don’t care about spoilers but in my judgment this is a case of it actually WOULD spoil your enjoyment. the way this book ends??? i had to put it down, then i read the last line again and i flipped to the beginning to reread the first line. then i went for a walk. i’ve been developing a theory about how books that end with a bang usually begin with a whimper, and vice versa (i just finished The Poppy War and it definitely began with a bang, ended with a whimper). other brilliant books i would categorize as ending with a bang, but slow to start include: Paladin of Souls. which is a longwinded way of saying: the beginning is all atmosphere & aesthetic, but stick with it & it will all pay off
(Gen is a similar Guile Hero to Miles, for starters), so I think I see why so many of my Vorkosigan fan friends are also hardcore Attolia fans.
same on all counts! i am surrounded by Attolia stans and Raven Cycle stans
that I have a "possessed by the spirit of an undead general" kink
i live to support my friends in their weirdly specific kinks <3
lololol you know it took me a while to realize the reason i like Book 1 of Machineries of Empire the most is because of the whole Jedao being this misunderstood pariah figure thing, which is huge in the Lymond books too, and i’m also slowly making my way through the ancient Chinese gayz drama that everyone’s gone apeshit over (“The Untamed” on Netflix) only i’m reading the webnovel in chinese so it’s slow going, and lemme tell you anna this is Misunderstood Pariah Syndrome dialed up to eleven
I'm also amused that we have both managed to bounce off Nnedi Okorafor XD Also Kameron Hurley, whom I didn't even mention in my list because I never even finished a single book of hers
ikr? i actually quite enjoy Kameron Hurley as a critic, that’s why i picked up—god i don’t even remember which book it was, just that it was both preachy and brutal, either of which i coulda handled by itself but the combination defeated me. i finished the first Laurie R King Mary Russell/Sherlock Holmes and as soon as i closed the final page i said nope, never doing that again
Tell me what Charles Stross stuff worked for you?
“Merchant Princes” but idgaf about any of the characters, i’m just here for the world building. i have a weakness for portals between different worlds, and magical folk who have the key to shuttling between them, it’s my dynamite. i just checked and he apparently came out with two new books in the last two years?? i binged the first six in like 2012 or something omg i didn’t even know there were more
part 2/2
Date: 2020-01-04 04:09 am (UTC)we independently both read North & South (I liked it a lot, and was impressed by how oddly progressive (most of) it seemed
ahaha i mean i thought the BBC miniseries was *more* progressive in that it gave union organizer Higgins more narrative weight, and a bunch of very fortifying speeches we didn’t get in the novel, and the chemistry between him and Margaret was so tangible i wound up crackshipping Margaret with him. i will readily admit that my own shipping predilections may have had somewhat to do with this! Margaret/Thornton is p much the epitome of an enemies-to-lovers ship. and i have since learned that Gaskell was a close friend of Charlotte Bronte’s and wrote her official biography! also that Dickens beta’d North & South which is wild. and while i don’t think it’s a radical text since the ending restores us to the status quo ante (Thornton= factory owner) it is certainly more progressive than i was expecting. i gotta say i did not expect to stan Mrs. Thornton so hard either!!! i suspect i may not have been stanning her for the same reasons as you were, but every time that woman appeared she stole the scene
even though I love Earthsea
one of my reading goals this year is to get at least partway through Earthsea. the only thing that worries me is in the joy of reconnecting with you i’ve noticed that my TBR as been growing at a frankly alarming rate
i haven’t read all that much SoC fic— what happened to put you off it? haha Richard and Jesper were far and away my favorites from their respective canons. Of COURSE Perscita is your favorite lol i shoulda known. she is like half of what makes VoE the best book. i love Emily a lot but i actually love Demane about equally, and even though i ship them together i’ve come to realize the shipping is actually secondary to my interest in these characters? which is rare for me. i feel like there are fewer fictional characters like Demane than like Emily. although maybe thats my genre bias showing. another minor character i did not expect to care about so much was Junichiro, and his defection and his pivotal role in undermining Our Heroes was such a perfect arc.
Perscitia followed by Jane, Emily, Napoleon, and Laurence on the next level Napoleon! there’s another slippery Miles-esque character. i never thought about it bc we’re always rooting against him but damn
I LOOOOVED Azula
ack i’d forgotten about you and The Dragon archetype. i think if you put a gun to my head and made me pick a favorite child i’d choose Zuko. there really isn’t a redemption arc in existence to match his, except maaaaybe Theon Greyjoy
part 3: possible sync-read books
Date: 2020-01-04 02:53 pm (UTC)i've been wanting to check out Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars--i generally like the optimistic tone he strikes, also his books always have Big Scientist Energy, the only thing is he paints on SUCH a big canvas it's tricky to follow if i'm not paying 100% attention. for older fantasy, GLen Cook's Books of the South are about a mercenary unit and i can't tell if they're more epic or dark but they're there. Octavia Butler is another classic author i've wanted to read more of! i've read her "Kindred", a standalone time-travel-to-the-civil-war novel, twice. The xenogenesis series beginnign wtih Dawn or else the Earthseed duology beginning with parable of the sower both look intriguing!
Re: part 3: possible sync-read books
Date: 2020-01-07 12:54 am (UTC)Oh, huh, my Deeplight copy is definitely a UK edition, but I saw some hardcovers for sale on Amazon -- but they must be UK copies as well. That makes sense, and April is fine!
So unfortunately Kim Stanley Robinson is not for me: I attempted Red Mars a while back, and must report that it bored me to tears -- I appreciated the obvious commitment to hard science, but the characters were doing nothing for me. And then I had the same experience with New York 2140 last year, so I think his style is just not for me.
I've never read any Glen Cook but would be curious to check him out!
And I've been planning to read some Octavia Butler -- I've never read anything by her. I was tentatively thinking of starting with Wild Seed, but am also open to other possibilities if you'd prefer.
Speaking of classic SFF, I compiled a list of things I wanted to check out (not all novels, some novellas and short stories) while reading Jo Walton's Hugo book -- that list is here, if anything on there strikes your fancy (in addition) :D
Re: part 3: possible sync-read books
Date: 2020-01-07 11:20 pm (UTC)This is fair! ACC is my FAVORITE, but I don't think it's the best in the series. I do think Memory probably is, but like you, I haven't actually ever reread it, because it was so painful, on so many levels.
but i just identified viscerally with Ista in Paladin, which is why i categorized it as “favorite.”
That makes sense! For me it's Caz that gets the more visceral reaction (not identification, but symapthy), and I find Ista someone who is more at a remove -- I really admire LMB's choice to have a character like that as a protagonist, and give her that arc, but I don't enjoy spending time in her head the way I do with Cazaril. But yes, they are both great, I can agree to that! :D
Nerdiest poem :D
I am perfectly happy to go into My Cousin Rachel unspoiled! and I get what you mean about working to subvert the expectations based on prior work -- I find that kind of meta-twist pretty cool!
ancient Chinese gayz drama that everyone’s gone apeshit over (“The Untamed” on Netflix) only i’m reading the webnovel in chinese>
Hehe, you are not wrong about everyone going apeshit over it XD (although the whole C-drama stuff has passed me by, even though everything I've heard about Nirvana in Fire, say, suggests that it would be up my alley if it were a book), and neat to be getting reading practice out of it :D
god i don’t even remember which book it was, just that it was both preachy and brutal, either of which i coulda handled by itself but the combination defeated me.
I think I read (~60% of) God's War, and I don't remember that being preachy, just brutal, and that was bad enough.
“Merchant Princes” but idgaf about any of the characters, i’m just here for the world building.
I see! That was actually the first thing of his I tried, because it sounded Amber-adjacent and therefore cool, but the female protagonist just wasn't working for me -- like, she didn't feel like a person, and it bugged me (and dudes writing female characters suboptimally generally doesn't -- I don't know what it was niggling at me to the degree that I just quit. It wasn't anything overt, but it just wasn't working for me.)
Thank you for the Daryl Gregory recs! Spoonbenders was the one that came up when I went looking for what else had he written, but I don't remember seeing the other one before, so that's cool!)
i mean i thought the BBC miniseries was *more* progressive
I haven't watched the miniseries (although I might make the effort for Richard Armitage), but, specifically the thing that impressed me about how progressive the book was, was its vintage (though you're right that it's not radical / upholds the status quo)
the only thing that worries me is in the joy of reconnecting with you i’ve noticed that my TBR as been growing at a frankly alarming rate
Haha, that's mutual! We'll get through it together XD ♥
i haven’t read all that much SoC fic— what happened to put you off it?
It was not a very deep survey, but when I first took a peek, everything I saw was baby's first fanfic along the lines of "what if Ketterdam were my high school?!! A/N: i wrote this in french class lol" and I slowly backed away. (I have found some decent ficlets from actual grownups, but mostly just 'cos one of my flisters writes it for fests)
Of COURSE Perscita is your favorite lol i shoulda known. she is like half of what makes VoE the best book
No argument from me! I love her, not just how smart she is, but how independent in her thinking (from the draconic norm, too). Her ending was actually one of the few truly satisfying things for me about LoD.
Demane is nicely unusual, I agree! And it was neat that he got to play a significant role -- I wasn't really expecting that when he first appeared.
Napoleon! there’s another slippery Miles-esque character. i never thought about it bc we’re always rooting against him but damn
Haha, you aren't wrong about the Miles comparison! I've actually always had a bit of a historical crush on the actual Napoleon, but this one is even more fun (and I came around on Lien, too) -- he really is such a showboating bastard, but this combination of competence porn and shamelessness about what he wants is just so fun to read. Speakign of which, have you read this great Temeraire (Laurence/Napoleon) IN SPACE fic: how long the orbital night. And while I'm linking you random stuff, I wrote a Napoleon(/Laurence) rondeau for the person who wrote ME the Galeni & Laurence & Hermione high school AU crossover. Just putting that out there.
i think if you put a gun to my head and made me pick a favorite child i’d choose Zuko. there really isn’t a redemption arc in existence to match his,
Oh, I love Zuko too, and agree that his redemption arc is absolutely masterful! (In fact, I like his growth arc a lot more than what happens with Azula, which I found unsatisfying both at the end of the show and in the comics) But I love the fact that a character like her exists -- I don't think I've encountered a female character like her before.
P.S. I tried out the first episode of Metamashina! The eps go a bit long for my taste, and I'm not as instantly won over as by the Serpents, by either personalities or format, but I like the stance/niche they're looking to occupy, and I'm looking forward to listening to more of the second episode (Slavic fairy tale retellings). Thank you for the rec!
responding to multiple posts/comments all in one place here
Date: 2020-01-10 03:57 pm (UTC)"backburner book series" is a useful category that i will now be appropriating bc it perfectly describes so many ongoing series i'm in the middle of ugh
if the poppy war sequel doubles down on MOAR altan yeah idk if i can handle that
i'm so glad you guys enjoyed the live production of Cursed Child! i do actually relate to the guilt about not seeing more live productions--Shakespeare in the Common is literally RIGHT THERE in Boston Common, and it's free, and my lazy ass has never once made it down there. As far as your super sekrit Yuletide treat awwww, that is adorable and the image of you shaking your present and frantically refreshing the page until you fell asleep makes me go :D I actually suspected from the moment I got my Yuletide gift that it was my friend whom I'd aggressively recc'd this canon at who had written it, but she actually told me she was writing something else and i'd looked that fic over for her, but it turns out the Something Else was a treat and mine was the gift, the LENGTHS she went to throw me off the scent lol so like a gentleman I did my best not to speak to her for 7 days and lo and behold when reveals came out :DDD. anyway i'm looking forward to reading your "lessons learned: how to optimize next year's yuletide experience" post, i love your science-brain approach to such things
welp, it looks like I'll have to try Sarah Pinkser now that you speak so highly of her ability to execute high-concept SF ideas. omg you're totally right that A Memory Called Empire is not structured as a mystery at all! the revelation that carries the most emotional heft is actually the scene when u find the real reason Emperor whatshisface was so intimate with Yskandr, and so obsessed with Lsel station: it was the goddamn imago technology. I do think it would've been much better to show the EFFECT of the poetry on people (and maybe quote those particularly strong lines, or a metaphor or two), rather than trying to reproduce it agreeeed. i wasn't impressed by the epitaphs but i usually never am. have you read this "found documents" concept yuletide fic? i wouldn't say the poetry stood out to me as dazzling but the fic as a whole works exceedingly well.
so glad you enjoyed the gretchen mcculloch book! i found the central thesis eye-opening too, although the emoji chapter was weakest for me just bc i felt like it had the least to do with the thesis.
of course you identified with Orso in Foundryside he is 100% your Type
thanks for all the fic-ish links btw! Ivan is such a Tyrell this is a new thought to me, do you have (or have you read) an analysis of Ivan's hogwarts-housewise somewhere? bc my first instinct is "not Ravenclaw." very strongly not-Ravenclaw. and iw as thinking about some of the other characters I listed as favorites in our decade in fandom meme, and one thing they all have in common (Ivan, Granby, Jesper Fahey, Richard Crawford) is they are all the POLAR opposite of a Ravenclaw. And K managed to find Ivan charming even the first time around i raise my glass to K as I did not myself manage this feat!
ETA: i think you’re “being married made Komarr age better on a reread” sentiment is very relatable, i reread little women recently and i did NOT remember identifying so hard with meg’s experience of early domestic/married life. and yes one of the great strengths of Serpentcast is it’s really nailed the format of the podcast, Metamashina has i think an average amount of bloviating/deadspace for a podcast but Serpentcast is rly remarkable for how tight it is (probably 50% good editing and 50% good planning/outlining). BBC North & South is a high rec from me—i actually think it does some things better than the book does, and it’s extremely bingeable.
Re: responding to multiple posts/comments all in one place here
Date: 2020-01-12 04:07 am (UTC)Whaat, how did you avoid getting into that from the number of times Serpentcast mentioned it? X But also, you're welcome/I'm sorry, because it's a great and fascinating system and the first time I found out about it -- via
I have put Cyteen on hold at the library and should have it in my hands shortly. :D
I actually suspected from the moment I got my Yuletide gift that it was my friend whom I'd aggressively recc'd this canon at who had written it,
Aww, that's very lovely! And that she went to the trouble of making sure it was a surprise for you, too :D
welp, it looks like I'll have to try Sarah Pinkser now
I highly, HIGHLY recommend "And Then There Were (N-One)" -- it probably should've made my favorite books of the decade answer, in fact. IIRC it's available online -- yes! here it is :D
The Memory Called Empire realizations are actually all K's , IIRC, but I do agree with them wholeheartedly. And no, I hadn't seen that Yuletide fic, but thank you for the link, because that is much more up my alley than all the Mahit/Nineteen Adze stuff I did see! :D (I agree the serious poetry is not the best part of it, but the general approach, and the folk song and the bake sale flyer, were great!)
of course you identified with Orso in Foundryside he is 100% your Type
I mean, I didn't personally identify with him, but he is 100% the "brilliant asshole" type I love. :D
Metamashina has i think an average amount of bloviating/deadspace for a podcast but Serpentcast is rly remarkable for how tight it is (probably 50% good editing and 50% good planning/outlining).
Nod, yeah, parts of Metamashina feel more self-indulgent than auience-focused, and I don't know yet if that's intentional focus or growing pains, but it definitely feels less tight than Serpentcast, where even if it's a topic I don't particularly care about, my feeling at the en of the epiosde is alway, "what, that's it? An hour can't possibly have gone by already!" They do seem to do more pre-planning, that I can see, but also I guess it's just the choice of format? What they say about the tentpoles, how they tie things together, recapping things like plot and context at high level instead of going into a lot of detail. It makes me appreciate the Serpents all the more.
i raise my glass to K as I did not myself manage this feat!
I think the secret is probably that Ivan reminded her of her younger brother :D
OK, Ivan sorting! Before I discovered Sorting Hat Chats and read CVA, I might've said Hufflepuff for Ivan. But with a deeper understanding of his character and a more complex sorting system, hm. I think Ivan may actually be a Ravenclaw seconary, just a really lazy one? And I say this as a person for whom Ivan is probably the character most like me -- I think he's got this "find a place with work that's easy for me to do, keep doing it because it's easy" approach that I think is what you get with Ravenclaws Seconaries who lack ambition -- you seek out a rut and then stay cozily in there. Now Primary-wise, Ivan is definitely not a Ravenclaw! I think probably not Gryffindor either -- he does have a moral compass that asserts himself occasionally, but I feel like that's probably more of a "What would Uncle Aral think?" kind of thing, and so is probably a model instilled in him by family and Barrayaran mores. I don't think he cares about community/society either, so not a Hufflepuff. Which leaves Slytherin, which actually feels right (and remember how I said that I sort myself that way, too). I feel like he's a Slytherin who's learned that a good way of looking after yourself and yours is to keep a low profile -- and also, he is surrounded by much more ambitious people who do generally have his best interests in mind, so if he does nothing, his mother or Aral or Miles will see to the good of the people Ivan cares about with no effort on his part, which suits him just fine. It's when he realizes that nobody else will step up to look after his interests that he actually bestirs himself to do something, which feels quite Slytherin Primary to me. What do you think?
Re: responding to multiple posts/comments all in one place here
Date: 2020-01-14 08:11 pm (UTC)the first time i gave a Serpentcast ep a whirl i wound up reading a 50k SGA fic while muttering "i don't even go here" under my breath. it's so dense that the amount of stuff that i make a mental note to check out later is unmanageable. ig i just kinda assumed they had their own idiosyncratic sorting criteria, rather than that "sortinghat chats" is a separate entity that exists lol. anyway i'm remedying that oversight now
he is surrounded by much more ambitious people who do generally have his best interests in mind, so if he does nothing, his mother or Aral or Miles will see to the good of the people Ivan cares about with no effort on his part, which suits him just fine
YESSS exactly. ok i think i need to put a pin in the Ivan sorting discussion until I've consumed more sortinghatchat meta, but for now I am probably leaning toward hufflepuff primary, because i think his circle of concern does encompass more than his immediate loved ones, but i think at this point more data points are needed so i'll bre returning to this fascinating Ivan topic at a later date!
tentpoles, how they tie things together, recapping things like plot and context at high level
the choice of tentpoles is without exception INSPIRED. unlike you ido feel like i want more detail and less high-level summary sometimes, but it doesn't happen that often--most of the time i'm happy with the overview i'm given
as for myself i've spent years telling everyone i'm a Ravenclaw and while i'm pretty confident i'm Ravenclaw secondary i'm still not settled on my primary House. if you have any real crunchy sorting discussions in your archives you want to link me to PLEASE DO, i'm dying to find out what "Hufflepuff Model Neutral State" means haha
once you get your hands on Cyteen lemme know how the logistics of this sync-read thing works, as i gather you've a few of them under your belt and i'm happy to follow your lead!
omfg i am in the middle of that Sarah Pinkser story and im posting this now bc i'm not sure i'll be able to finish it before i have to go to work but i can already tell it's amazing. what impresses me: (1) that she managed to execute this concept PERFECTLY i could think of so many ways she might've fallen short (2) that she manages to balance philosophical musings vs. moving the plot forward
Re: responding to multiple posts/comments all in one place here
Date: 2020-01-14 08:59 pm (UTC)Ahaha, OK, that's a fair reason not to click on any Seprentcast links. I've miraculously avoided doing anything like that directly, but I know for a fact that K read a Merlin longfic despite a negative amount of interest in the show. (Also, if it's the SGA fic I'm thinking of, that did sound intriguing! the, like, negative space storytelling one?)
I will be very happy to hear your thoughts on Ivan (and anyone else) sorting once you feel more comfortable with the system!
i think his circle of concern does encompass more than his immediate loved ones
I do want to say, I think that's entirely possible with Slytherin primaries, and also the 'circles' of care may expand or contract depending on what they've got going on. So, like, I think that Miles, Piotr, and Ezar are all Slytherin primaries for example (as well as Ges, who is a more destructive variety) -- as I said to K some weeks ago, poor Aral (who I'm pretty sure is a Gryffindor primary), sandwiched between his Slytherin father, his Slytherin boyfriend, his Slytherin emperor, and eventually his Slytherin son :P
But anyway, I think Miles is a Slytherin whose circle pathologically includes anyone who stands still long enough to be entrained in his forward momentum and/or looks like they could use his help, and Piotr's circle includes the entirety of his District, and Ezar's all of Barrayar).
I do think the difference between a large-scale Slytherin primary and a Hufflepuff primary is in the subtext of what they're thinking when they're thinking "these are my people" -- 'I'm part of this community' (Puff) or 'they belong to me' [however benevolently] (Slyth)
Neither quite feels like Ivan, TBH, but I feel like the Slyth attitude is more easily satisfied with the "and they're in good hands with the other people already looking after them, might as well go take a nap".
But yes, let's come back to it!
(It occurs to me I should've used this icon with my previous comment on this topic, so I'm using it now)
Digging through my tags, other than the post in which you found the Sorting Hat Chats in the first place, I think I only have this, my very first foray into sorting using this system (so I probably disagree with a bunch of my conclusions, LOL). But it might still be an interesting time capsule.
What I mean by the Hufflepuff model neutral state is, for myself, this kind of thing where 1) I consider the Hufflepuff truth of community and quality and basic decency the 'right' way to be; the ethical ideal I try to live up to is a Hufflepuff one (I think, anyway), and 2) most of the time there is no reason for me NOT to operate by the Hufflepuff model -- if there are enough resources to go around, if there's nothing I want that requires someone else in my community to lose so I can have the thing, I'm in my neutral state and can "look" like a Hufflepuff primary from the outside, probably. But if a conflict should arise between the good of my circle and the good of the community, then my actual Slytherin primary will reassert itself, and my natural drive is to make sure the people I care about are taken care of, and only then worry about anything else. But as long as there is no conflict, I try to operate by Hufflepuff primary rules. Does that make sense?
(2) that she manages to balance philosophical musings vs. moving the plot forward
I am so glad to hear you're enjoying the Pinsker story! (she has a collection and a novel out, neither of which I've read, but I need to, because someone who can write like that is someone I need to read a lot more of) I was also really impressed that she managed to both write a kickass high concept story AND give it an actual compelling mystery plot. Hell, so many SFF writers can't manage either one on its own! and these are not two things that naturally go together. Anyway, this was my favorite discovery from Hugo homework reading in 2018, and that story alone would've made the whole enterprise worth it, honestly.
lemme know how the logistics of this sync-read thing works,
I've mostly done it as a post on either person's journal that the other person (and any other interesting parties) track. We've usually organized it like this, where everyone comments with a chunk of stuff they've read (with page number / chapter / % to make sure nobody goes farther than they want to be spoiled) and then comment on each other's in-progress thoughts as you catch up with the other person(s). I think even with just two people it's the easiest way to manage spoilers if not keeping strictly on pace with each other. It looks like Cyteen is a thick-ass book, so we could also decide, like, how many pages a week we want to read and aim for that. It's all very flexible depending on what we want!
Re: responding to multiple posts/comments all in one place here
Date: 2020-01-17 05:54 am (UTC)the very one
'I'm part of this community' (Puff) or 'they belong to me' [however benevolently] (Slyth)
oooooh thanks for explicating that for me, however i had a sudden brainwave and now i'm convinced Ivan's a Gryffindor primary based on when those goons in ACC jumped Dono & Olivia & Ivan, Ivan's thought process wasn't "Dono is one of my people" which it would have been if he'd belonged to one of the loyalist houses, it's "this isn't RIGHT" and he just dives right in headfirst. the speed of his about-face is really what settled me for Gryffindor, because he's too warm for Ravenclaw. up to this point he had somewhere between zero to negative conviction in Dono's campaign, he was just along for the ride & the pretty girls. he just. trusts his gut wholly & entirely. i'm going to have to set my Ivan-griffyndor-primary hypothesis against my next CVA reread
the sad news is, sometime between last week when i opened a flurry of links and today when i tried to open more links, the sortinghatchats entire tumblr has been deleted, i've been working the wayback machine pretty hard haha. picturing Mal as burnt Hufflepuff helped me get my bearings on the system a lot better, actually all their Firefly sortings came from such a place of deep love and understanding it actually gave me a warm glow inside just to read them. man, do you ever feel like Slytherin primaries are overrepresented in fiction?
i think--i think i am probably a Ravenclaw primary. but i think im uncomfortable with it, and i may model Hufflepuff and/or Slytherin with varying degrees of success, because goddamnit i think it's important to be loyal to people and/or causes. i admire and respect and wistfully envy that kind of loyalty but i just don't have it in me. the only thing i know about me for certain is that i belong in an Idealist house, and Gryffindor is out because i hate & distrust my instincts. i need to look at everything from 17 different angles. maybe i'm just a Ravencalw who hasn't settled on my system yet, and that's why i'm floundering
poor Aral (who I'm pretty sure is a Gryffindor primary), sandwiched between his Slytherin father, his Slytherin boyfriend, his Slytherin emperor, and eventually his Slytherin son :P
asdksjkdfdjfkd poor Aral. at least he's got his hufflepuff wife right? (she is a hufflepuff as far as i can tell? what's cordelia's secondary, is the real question--i can make a plausible argument for all four of them?? wtf)
managed to both write a kickass high concept story AND give it an actual compelling mystery plot
not sure she 100% stuck the landing but the story about the runaway horse had me in actual tears. i mean she definitely stuck the detective-has-a-eureka-moment revelation. this story is everything i wanted the Rick & Morty ep where they went to the Planet of the Ricks to be. my husband is a big consumer of the Rick & Morty Show and my opinion on that show is very... volatile, depending on which ep we're talking about
ETA: us bonding over our shared secondary explains a lot, in retrospect. when i read sortinghatchat's explanation for how Steve Rogers, the most Gryffindor Gryffindor to ever Gryffindor, may actually exude SO MUCH GRYFFINDOR energy that it overshadows his hufflepuff secondary, i was like oh. OHHHHH. i immediately claimed Ravenclaw as my own secondary but the primary was a harder sort for me, so now i see the "overshadowing" can go both ways.
Re: responding to multiple posts/comments all in one place here
Date: 2020-01-21 05:57 am (UTC)OH NO! D: They did have a quiz, too, which still appears to be up here, although it's not nearly as handy for getting used to the system.
do you ever feel like Slytherin primaries are overrepresented in fiction?
Hmm, I'm not sure. My favorite characters tend to be Slyth primaries/Gryff secondaries (e.g. Jaime Lannister), because the Slyth primary provides strong, immediate motivation that (unlike Gryffindor primaries) I can actually empathize with, and Gryffindor secondary means they drive plot with their actions. Slyth/Slyths are also great, but I feel like they are harder to write, so you don't get as many of them as Slyth/Gryffs. I do think many traditional leads tend to be Gryffindor primaries, though, all your Big Damn Heroes (Mal's sorting notwithstanding :)
i need to look at everything from 17 different angles. maybe i'm just a Ravencalw who hasn't settled on my system yet, and that's why i'm floundering
That sounds very plausible! (and see if the quiz agrees with that, maybe?)
As you say in your last para, I feel like my Secondary really overshadows my Primary (especially as I spend so much time modeling Hufflepuff with my primary anyway). But, yeah, I instantly knew I was Ravenclaw Secondary, too, and in fact that's what I've always meant when I said I was a Ravenclaw.
back to Vorkosigan sorting specifically:
"this isn't RIGHT" and he just dives right in headfirst. the speed of his about-face is really what settled me for Gryffindor
Hmm, that is a good point! It's been a while since I've reread ACC, so I don't remember specifically, but now I want to reread both it and CVA with an eye to Ivan sorting. I could see Slyth an Gryff elements in him, but which is the real Primary and which is the model (he could've easily picked up Slyth from Lady Alys, or Gryffindor from Aral/general Vor expectations) I find it harder to say.
re: Cordelia, she is super hard for me, in all sorting systems. I think she has a very strong Hufflepuff model which comes from her Beta cultural upbringing. But K, who has a bit of a superpower when it comes to "diagnosing" Primaries, said Gryffindor for her primary (Gryffindors are most likely to remain themselves in a strange situation, because the sense of right and wrong doesn't get easily updated), and that seems plausible to me, too.
re: (N-One) -- I usually don't like open-ended things, but in this case I thought it was a really fitting conclusion, given the whole multi-verse concept. The runaway horse story also made me tear up. I got to hear Pinsker talk at Worldcon, and people asked her if the runaway horse story was true, and she said yes, in general, which probably explains why it's so powerful.